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	<title>Comments on: Japanese Health Care: No Utopia</title>
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	<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/</link>
	<description>A Guy with a Blog about Japan</description>
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		<title>By: Guyjin &#187; Blog Archive &#187; UN: Japan 10th Place and Falling in World Human Development Index</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>Guyjin &#187; Blog Archive &#187; UN: Japan 10th Place and Falling in World Human Development Index</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-434</guid>
		<description>[...] well, due in large part to its high life expectancy. But as I&#8217;ve discussed here before (see Japanese Health Care: No Utopia), there are a number of issues in health care that are only going to get worse as the population [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] well, due in large part to its high life expectancy. But as I&#8217;ve discussed here before (see Japanese Health Care: No Utopia), there are a number of issues in health care that are only going to get worse as the population [...]</p>
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		<title>By: troutfactory</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>troutfactory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-71</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  The link didn&#039;t seem to post.  I&#039;ll just provide the raw URL:

http://troutfactory.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/japans-health-care-system-and-the-american-debate-about-national-care/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  The link didn&#8217;t seem to post.  I&#8217;ll just provide the raw URL:</p>
<p><a href="http://troutfactory.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/japans-health-care-system-and-the-american-debate-about-national-care/" rel="nofollow">http://troutfactory.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/japans-health-care-system-and-the-american-debate-about-national-care/</a></p>
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		<title>By: troutfactory</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>troutfactory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Hi Guyjin — I look forward to hearing your reply.  Again, I don&#039;t really disagree with your criticisms of the Japanese health system when directed solely at the Japanese health system in isolation (yes! let&#039;s make it better!), but I do think there are many ways in which it is a better system than the one that doesn&#039;t really exist in the U.S. currently.  

Like you I think that the Japanese medical system is grounded in its own particular social/cultural/economic/political matrix and it would be a mistake simply to imagine a wholesale transposition of the Japanese system onto the United States.  That much said, I think there are so many positives than can be taken from the Japanese system that it would be a horrible mistake to simply dismiss what&#039;s been able to be accomplished here despite the fact that the system may in fact be &quot;no Utopia.&quot; 

I&#039;ve written a much, much longer post about this at my own blog, and at the risk of seeming like a lowdown self-promoter, I&#039;ll provide a link here:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://troutfactory.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/japans-health-care-system-and-the-american-debate-about-national-care/&quot; title=&quot;Japan’s health care system and the American debate about national care&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Guyjin — I look forward to hearing your reply.  Again, I don&#8217;t really disagree with your criticisms of the Japanese health system when directed solely at the Japanese health system in isolation (yes! let&#8217;s make it better!), but I do think there are many ways in which it is a better system than the one that doesn&#8217;t really exist in the U.S. currently.  </p>
<p>Like you I think that the Japanese medical system is grounded in its own particular social/cultural/economic/political matrix and it would be a mistake simply to imagine a wholesale transposition of the Japanese system onto the United States.  That much said, I think there are so many positives than can be taken from the Japanese system that it would be a horrible mistake to simply dismiss what&#8217;s been able to be accomplished here despite the fact that the system may in fact be &#8220;no Utopia.&#8221; </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve written a much, much longer post about this at my own blog, and at the risk of seeming like a lowdown self-promoter, I&#8217;ll provide a link here:</p>
<p><a href="http://troutfactory.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/japans-health-care-system-and-the-american-debate-about-national-care/" title="Japan’s health care system and the American debate about national care" rel="nofollow"></a></p>
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		<title>By: guyjin</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>guyjin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your response troutfactory. I appreciate the time you&#039;ve taken to make these points. You are obvious very passionate about your views. I would like to respond to some of your points, but they deserve a little more than just a passing comment in the comments section. I will be returning to this subject in the next few weeks, and I will take your points into account when I do. I hope you have the chance to come back again from time to time, and please feel free to contribute any time - even when you disagree with me....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your response troutfactory. I appreciate the time you&#8217;ve taken to make these points. You are obvious very passionate about your views. I would like to respond to some of your points, but they deserve a little more than just a passing comment in the comments section. I will be returning to this subject in the next few weeks, and I will take your points into account when I do. I hope you have the chance to come back again from time to time, and please feel free to contribute any time &#8211; even when you disagree with me&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: troutfactory</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>troutfactory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-35</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to be the second person to disagree with many of the conclusions reached above.  While I agree that the Japanese health care system is no Utopia (what health care system is) and needs fixing and revision in several key area (many of which are touched on here), in general I find that my experiences with Japanese the Japanese health care system have been nothing but positive.

I&#039;ve been living in Japan for over four years now, usually go to see the doctor for something or other between two and five times a year, and have never had a particularly bad experience.  I have had to wait for hours in the waiting room before, but that was when I showed up with no appointment on the day that I wanted to be seen.  Each time I&#039;ve actually had an appointment I haven&#039;t had to wait longer than 15 minutes.  My visits to the doctor are unconscionably cheap, the doctors are always nice enough (though it&#039;s true they don&#039;t spend a lot of time with pleasantries), and they&#039;ve listened to and addressed my questions.  Whenever I&#039;ve had medicine prescribed it&#039;s been cheap and done the trick.  When friends from abroad have come to visit they&#039;ve had similar experiences (including being amazed at the incredibly cheap doctor bills).

But don&#039;t just trust my anecdotal evidence — check out the Americans Abroad Know About National Health Care site, a site that collects stories about the positive health care experiences of Americans living abroad.  This site was started by a person living in Japan, so a majority of the stories that are told here are stories about the Japanese health care system.  Dozens and dozens of anecdotes, and all of them positive. 

http://healthcareforamerica.blogspot.com/

Finally — and once again I agree with you that there are problems with the health care system that need to be addressed — there&#039;s no doubt that statistically the Japanese health care system outperforms the U.S. health care system when it comes to raw, un-anecdotal statistics:

http://streetlightblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/some-statistics-on-health-care.html

It&#039;s true that there may be many discomforts, problems, etc. when it comes to specific areas of Japanese health care — and it&#039;s also true that the U.S. may excel when it comes to drug and treatment innovation — but as far as general care is concerned (the type that most people get and need) there&#039;s a reason that the World Health Organization (in 2000) ranked Japan 10th and the U.S. 37th in the world when it comes to health care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to be the second person to disagree with many of the conclusions reached above.  While I agree that the Japanese health care system is no Utopia (what health care system is) and needs fixing and revision in several key area (many of which are touched on here), in general I find that my experiences with Japanese the Japanese health care system have been nothing but positive.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been living in Japan for over four years now, usually go to see the doctor for something or other between two and five times a year, and have never had a particularly bad experience.  I have had to wait for hours in the waiting room before, but that was when I showed up with no appointment on the day that I wanted to be seen.  Each time I&#8217;ve actually had an appointment I haven&#8217;t had to wait longer than 15 minutes.  My visits to the doctor are unconscionably cheap, the doctors are always nice enough (though it&#8217;s true they don&#8217;t spend a lot of time with pleasantries), and they&#8217;ve listened to and addressed my questions.  Whenever I&#8217;ve had medicine prescribed it&#8217;s been cheap and done the trick.  When friends from abroad have come to visit they&#8217;ve had similar experiences (including being amazed at the incredibly cheap doctor bills).</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t just trust my anecdotal evidence — check out the Americans Abroad Know About National Health Care site, a site that collects stories about the positive health care experiences of Americans living abroad.  This site was started by a person living in Japan, so a majority of the stories that are told here are stories about the Japanese health care system.  Dozens and dozens of anecdotes, and all of them positive. </p>
<p><a href="http://healthcareforamerica.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://healthcareforamerica.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>Finally — and once again I agree with you that there are problems with the health care system that need to be addressed — there&#8217;s no doubt that statistically the Japanese health care system outperforms the U.S. health care system when it comes to raw, un-anecdotal statistics:</p>
<p><a href="http://streetlightblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/some-statistics-on-health-care.html" rel="nofollow">http://streetlightblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/some-statistics-on-health-care.html</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that there may be many discomforts, problems, etc. when it comes to specific areas of Japanese health care — and it&#8217;s also true that the U.S. may excel when it comes to drug and treatment innovation — but as far as general care is concerned (the type that most people get and need) there&#8217;s a reason that the World Health Organization (in 2000) ranked Japan 10th and the U.S. 37th in the world when it comes to health care.</p>
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		<title>By: guyjin</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>guyjin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-21</guid>
		<description>By the way, DontbashJapan, I am not a Japan basher. I love Japan, which is why I have devoted so much of my life to this country, and have lived here for more than 15 years... I simply call things as I see them. Every country has strong and weak points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, DontbashJapan, I am not a Japan basher. I love Japan, which is why I have devoted so much of my life to this country, and have lived here for more than 15 years&#8230; I simply call things as I see them. Every country has strong and weak points.</p>
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		<title>By: guyjin</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>guyjin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-20</guid>
		<description>You are of course entitled to disagree. But your arguments are even more anecdotal than what I have based my article on. I&#039;m happy that you haven&#039;t had to wait long for doctors in Japan, but you are the first American that I have ever met that has had such glowing things to say about the Japanese system. Yes, the US may have some experimental treatments that get denied at times. But you miss the point that I was trying to make re the Japanese system. That is that these requests for new medications don&#039;t even get to the patient, or the doctor, for that matter. These decisions are made by government in Japan, and the public don&#039;t even learn about them, let alone get a chance to have them denied.... And as I mentioned in my article, placing the average life expectancy on such a high pedestal as some kind of ultimate proof of a great health care system is incomplete and naive.

Having said all of that, I appreciate your comments, and hope you will come back. I appreciate debate, and while you may disagree with my conclusions, I am always open to having them challenged. Unfortunately the anecdotal experiences of one person that I don&#039;t know from Adam are not going to be sufficient to change my mind on the subject. I need a lot more evidence than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are of course entitled to disagree. But your arguments are even more anecdotal than what I have based my article on. I&#8217;m happy that you haven&#8217;t had to wait long for doctors in Japan, but you are the first American that I have ever met that has had such glowing things to say about the Japanese system. Yes, the US may have some experimental treatments that get denied at times. But you miss the point that I was trying to make re the Japanese system. That is that these requests for new medications don&#8217;t even get to the patient, or the doctor, for that matter. These decisions are made by government in Japan, and the public don&#8217;t even learn about them, let alone get a chance to have them denied&#8230;. And as I mentioned in my article, placing the average life expectancy on such a high pedestal as some kind of ultimate proof of a great health care system is incomplete and naive.</p>
<p>Having said all of that, I appreciate your comments, and hope you will come back. I appreciate debate, and while you may disagree with my conclusions, I am always open to having them challenged. Unfortunately the anecdotal experiences of one person that I don&#8217;t know from Adam are not going to be sufficient to change my mind on the subject. I need a lot more evidence than that.</p>
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		<title>By: DontbashJapan</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>DontbashJapan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-19</guid>
		<description>I would like to absolutely disagree with the some of the conclusions drawn above, the maximum I have waited at any hospital is 20 minutes to see a specialist and I have never been allotted 3 minutes to see the doctor. My experience which is quite extensive is that the are very multidisciplinary. My experience in the US to the contrary was waiting hours, high co-pays and pressure on the doctors to prescribe expensive medication that did not and worst of all was the amount of time spent haggling and submitting requests for treatment and then being denied coverage because the treatment was &quot;experimental&quot;. I would never trade the Japanese system for the US system. The US is absolutely without a doubt to a magnitude more appalling than some of the health care systems I have used in other countries.

Have experienced the systems in England, Japan and the US, my last expression would be identical to the woman in the W.P. article, the US has a third world medical system in a supposedly first world country.

Some of the medications are not available in Japan but there are usually alternatives.
Some of the medications are not available in Japan but there are usually alternatives.

The average of age death should be evidence enough of how much more superior the system here is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to absolutely disagree with the some of the conclusions drawn above, the maximum I have waited at any hospital is 20 minutes to see a specialist and I have never been allotted 3 minutes to see the doctor. My experience which is quite extensive is that the are very multidisciplinary. My experience in the US to the contrary was waiting hours, high co-pays and pressure on the doctors to prescribe expensive medication that did not and worst of all was the amount of time spent haggling and submitting requests for treatment and then being denied coverage because the treatment was &#8220;experimental&#8221;. I would never trade the Japanese system for the US system. The US is absolutely without a doubt to a magnitude more appalling than some of the health care systems I have used in other countries.</p>
<p>Have experienced the systems in England, Japan and the US, my last expression would be identical to the woman in the W.P. article, the US has a third world medical system in a supposedly first world country.</p>
<p>Some of the medications are not available in Japan but there are usually alternatives.<br />
Some of the medications are not available in Japan but there are usually alternatives.</p>
<p>The average of age death should be evidence enough of how much more superior the system here is.</p>
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		<title>By: Guyjin &#187; Blog Archive &#187; H1N1 Flu-Vaccine Trials Underline Trouble Getting Drugs into Japan</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Guyjin &#187; Blog Archive &#187; H1N1 Flu-Vaccine Trials Underline Trouble Getting Drugs into Japan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-14</guid>
		<description>[...] and around 100 children. This is actually a concession by the government. As I mentioned in an earlier post last week, Japanese processes for approving foreign drugs usually require full formal clinical testing in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and around 100 children. This is actually a concession by the government. As I mentioned in an earlier post last week, Japanese processes for approving foreign drugs usually require full formal clinical testing in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Moonbridge</title>
		<link>http://guyjin.me/2009/09/08/japanese-health-care-no-utopia/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Moonbridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guyjin.me/?p=74#comment-12</guid>
		<description>My J-A mom had to see a doctor during a visit to Japan 15 years ago and the overworked doc was very curious about the U.S. system. He was frustrated by having so many patients, many who had really minor things wrong and many elderly with nothing wrong that just seemed to want to get out of the house and visit (his interpretation) - why not, it&#039;s free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My J-A mom had to see a doctor during a visit to Japan 15 years ago and the overworked doc was very curious about the U.S. system. He was frustrated by having so many patients, many who had really minor things wrong and many elderly with nothing wrong that just seemed to want to get out of the house and visit (his interpretation) &#8211; why not, it&#8217;s free.</p>
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