THE BEST SERVICE EVER AND MY SITE DIDN’T COST ME A FORTUNE….

I’m all for respecting other people’s opinions, but as long as you’re unable to morally justify your actions, billions of sentient creatures lose their lives as a result of your carelessness.

“In short, you are not going to sell me on the arguments for everyone being a vegan” – That is the main problem when approaching meat eaters, they come into the issue approaching it with a closed mind. I understand this, as I was once a meat eater myself. All that I ask is that you keep an open mind and take the time to consider the points I am making to you. It is not for the other vegans you are turning vegan, it is the animals you are turning vegan for.
Please take the time to go and watch the movie ‘Earthlings’: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142#

Having said that, your first sentence is totally flawed, and thus goes your whole argument. My argument doesn’t break down at all, because I am not arguing intelligence. I was responding to the comment of another poster, who argued intelligence. My point was that this was a ridiculous argument. That intelligence has nothing to do with it. The issue is, that animals are NOT equivalent to humans, that their interests do NOT deserve the same consideration as those of humans. And that animals are available for mankind to use and enjoy, as long as they are good stewards of them.

Does this mean that every time a human kills or eats an animal it is done in an efficient way or for good reason. Not necessarily, no. There are abuses and excesses in every aspect of life, and always will be. And that applies to how humanity uses animals as well. But I reject the idea that animals should be put on such a pedestal to not be used for food or other purposes by humans. Some people believe that. Good for them. I do not. I believe that animal meat is good for humans (in moderation, like all things), and I reject the idea that we only eat meat out of convenience or enjoyment. But even if that were the case, I reject the notion that humans should stop enjoying their food in order to stop killing any animals. Animals are not humans. They are animals. And it is my opinion that they are there for the use and enjoyment of mankind, and for the betterment of the earth. A role that they serve well. In short, you are not going to sell me on the arguments for everyone being a vegan. But nice try.

Most people already accept that it is wrong to inflict ‘unnecessary’ suffering on animals. Unnecessary must at the least, mean it is wrong to inflict suffering for reasons of pleasure, convenience or amusement. Yet if you look at society’s treatment of animals, the overwhelming amount of suffering inflicted on animals can be justified ONLY on the basis of pleasure, convenience or amusement. Consuming meat and other animal products cannot be considered necessary in ANY sense. The ONLY reason we have for consuming these products is that we enjoy the taste, and if we take the interests of animals seriously, our enjoyment cannot be considered a moral argument.
Most people own a cat or dog. We treat these animals as a part of our family; yet we stick forks into other animals who are no different from those who we consider our family.

Animal farming is also a nightmare for the environment, it takes 20 times more land to produce food for a meat-eater than a vegan, animal farming contributes to 51% of Global Warming, and is the leading cause of deforestation and desertification. A cow eats 10 times more plant matter than volume in flesh it outputs.
Mainstream science is increasingly acknowledging that meat and other animal products have negative effects on human health; causing cancer, heart disease, diabetes and a score of other illnesses.

Then there are the other common arguments I here:
1. “Plants are alive too, therefore it is okay to kill animals.”
Animal rights argues for the right of SENTIENT animals. Plants are not sentient, that is, they have no perception of the senses and are not conscious. Whereas all sentient animals have an interest in not being treated as the mere property and resources of others, plants have no interest in anything. Suppose that plants were sentient, veganism would still be the moral baseline. For the simple fact that in order to produce meat, an animal needs to consume far larger amounts of plants than volume in flesh it outputs. The more we care about plants, the more we want to minimise the suffering inflicted upon them animals by going vegan.
2. “Animals kill other animals, therefore we can too.”
There are also scores of vegetarian animals that never harm another living creature, why should they not serve as our role model, rather than carnivores?
Animals perform a number of ‘natural’ acts that we humans would never consider acceptable. For example, rape, murder, cannibalism etc. Since when have animals served as a role model of how human society runs itself and determines its moral values? Isn’t it funny that when it is convenient for us to do so, we attempt to justify our exploitation of animals by resting on our supposed “superiority.” And when our supposed “superiority” gets in the way of what we want to do, we suddenly portray ourselves as nothing more than another species of wild animal, as entitled as foxes to eat chickens.

We kill billions of animals every year for reasons that cannot possibly be considered necessary while accepting that it is wrong to inflict ‘unnecessary’ suffering on animals,
If we take the interest of animals of interests seriously, we must award their interests equal consideration by adopting a vegan diet.

Also a lot seems to be made about Japan whaling under the guise of scientific research according to the Wiki article on Whaling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling “When the commercial whaling moratorium was introduced by the IWC in 1982, Japan lodged an official objection. However, in response to US threats to cut Japan’s fishing quota in US territorial waters under the terms of the Packwood-Magnuson Amendment, Japan withdrew its objection in 1987. However, according to the BBC, America went back on this promise, effectively destroying the deal. Since Japan could not resume commercial whaling, it began whaling on a supposedly scientific-research basis.” Interesting the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan appears to to contradict this go figure.

Personally anyone using the PCB and Mercury issue to stop whaling needs a kick to the butt, because there is probably more fish eaten that have this danger “http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/guide.asp” and alot of those fish are getting low in number nevermind that most warnings I’ve seen are toned down by the commercial fishing industry. If Whaling commercial and research where banned altogether that would be fine by me. But shipping, pollution and development seem to be just as large a danger to whales.
Disclaimer I am a 4th gen american born japanese with ancestry ties to taiji ,japan and I have eaten whale. Also more worried about the environment overall ,especially since things are probably more related than most people think. Sorry for the long reply

What bugs me most about this debate is this attempt to bring dolphins and whales into the same realm as humans. To make them equivalent. They are not. Are they cute? Yes. Do they exhibit some amount of intelligence? Yes. Does this make it barbaric to eat them? Hardly. I’m not saying that I want us all to go out and have a dolphin burger or anything, and I don’t particularly care to eat one myself. But it, and whaling has been a tradition for many years in Japan, and who I am to say that this is more barbaric than eating pigs, or other animals – dogs, rabbits, etc that are eaten in other cultures but may not be my cup of tea either…. What it comes down to for me, in the end, is that animals are for the benefit of man, and not the other way around… We need to be good stewards and not overly exploit them, or cause them to become extinct, but we are free to use them for food and other needs.

We traditionally kill several hundred American children in our village each year because, you know, they don’t speak Japanese. Who knew they were intelligent?

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